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Author: UncleZen Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 77645  
Subject: Woodburner questions Date: 15/09/2008 15:55
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Im thinking of installing a woodburning stove into our main fireplace.
The fireplace looks like its made of a purpose built fireproof material and the chimney is a cermaic pipe by the looks of it.
I understand that I need a "register plate" to fit into the chimney void somewhere, which has a hole and I connect this hole to the pipe coming out of the back of the woodburner (stove pipe?). Does that sound right?
My fireplace currently has an elbow (a curved bit sicking out the back, I think thats what its called), so in order to make the pipe meet the register plate I assume the pipe will need to be flexible to go around the elbow? Is there such a thing as flexible pipe?

Can anyone help or point me to some pictures explaining this?

Last of all: Why do I need a register plate at all? Wwhy can I just leave the smoke to come out the back of the woodburner, wont the draw take it away?

Hopefully an expert can answer me.
TIA
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Author: NoodleBerry Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54551 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 15/09/2008 16:05
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Im thinking of installing a woodburning stove into our main fireplace.
Did you know that all work on fireplaces needs building regs approval (or to be self-certified by a person from HETAS or similar)?

Are you in a smoke control zone - your council should know - if you are this will considerably reduce your choices of burner.

The fireplace looks like its made of a purpose built fireproof material and the chimney is a cermaic pipe by the looks of it.
Can you work out the diameter of the ceramic pipe, how old is the house and existing fireplace?

I understand that I need a "register plate" to fit into the chimney void somewhere, which has a hole and I connect this hole to the pipe coming out of the back of the woodburner (stove pipe?). Does that sound right?
Yes!
My fireplace currently has an elbow (a curved bit sicking out the back, I think thats what its called), so in order to make the pipe meet the register plate I assume the pipe will need to be flexible to go around the elbow? Is there such a thing as flexible pipe?
I don't really understand what your describing - is it part of the fireback? See diagrams/pictures here for further reference: http://www.c20fires.co.uk/fireplace_fitting.htm

Can anyone help or point me to some pictures explaining this?
Yes!

Last of all: Why do I need a register plate at all? Wwhy can I just leave the smoke to come out the back of the woodburner, wont the draw take it away?
The burner won't burn as efficiently and there is a risk of smoke and/or carbon monoxide coming into the room

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Author: muldonach One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54552 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 15/09/2008 16:49
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The use of a register plate is not, as far as I know, obligatory although it is often recommended and may well be the easiest solution.

We`are on our second woodburner installation and have not used a register plate in either one since it would be far more trouble than it is worth.

All that is necessary is for you to take the flue out of your woodburner and mate it up to your existing flue with an airtight seal which avoids soot build up and allows efficient cleaning.

Your stove supplier or manufacturer should be able to supply or direct you towards a supplier of flue sections and bends. In our case a short section of 6" steel pipe out the back of the woodburner is mated to a 90 degree elbow and a 1 metre length of stainless flue introduced into the existing stone chimney (old building). A decorative brick wall is built up behind the woodburner and all gaps behind theis wall are filled with a rubble / weak mortar mix faired to the top of the stainless flue. This was achieved by breaking into the chimney stonework and reinstating it after the flue was installed and faired.

You will need to decide for yourself if such an arrangement is less trouble or more decorative than fitting a register plate.

If you do not seal the woodburner flue into the existing chimney then the woodburner will not draw efficiently and sooner or later you will get a backdraught. The resulting grief of redecoration will make fitting a register plate seem well worthwhile.

I would also recommend fitting a soot trap into the flue with access from outside the building.

Cheers
mac

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Author: MrSomeoneElse Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54553 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 15/09/2008 17:00
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I'm not an expert but I replaced my wood burner last year. It seem the installer must satisfy themselves that the chimney is in good shape. As this is difficult its easier to install a liner. We did this as our chimney is probably 200 years old and condition is unknown.

The flue immediately about the wood burner must be solid and since this is the bit you see before it disappears through the register plate it looks better. The flue comes out of the top of my burner but wasn't immediately below the hole in the register plate we have two 45 degree bends forming a dog leg.

The purpose of the register plate is two fold, it stop all the debris falling down the chimney and prevents air from the room being drawn up and out the chimney. Air which has cost good money to heat up.

Good luck

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Author: UncleZen Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54556 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 15/09/2008 19:25
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Did you know that all work on fireplaces needs building regs approval (or to be self-certified by a person from HETAS or similar)?
Yes

Are you in a smoke control zone - your council should know - if you are this will considerably reduce your choices of burner.
No

Can you work out the diameter of the ceramic pipe, how old is the house and existing fireplace?
House is 21yrs, I reckon the pipe is 6 possibly 7 inches, but is difficult to see it clearly and difficult to measure easily.

The bottom picture at the link is exactly what I have; fireback/throat/lintel arrangement, the bend in the fireback is what I called the elbow.

The purpose of the register plate is now clear. Thank you.

But where in the picture would it go? In the "throat"? The gap in the tkroat is 4 inches.

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Author: NoodleBerry Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54559 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 16/09/2008 09:14
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House is 21yrs

You can probably get away without re-lining the flue then. The flue will need a good sweep and I'd check out the whole chimney stack in and on the roof. You might be wise to do a "smoke test" to check that the flue is gas-tight. e.g. http://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/building_control/DisplayArti...

But where in the picture would it go? In the "throat"? The gap in the tkroat is 4 inches.

I would remove the fireback/throat completely - leaving what's termed, by some, the "builder's opening" (ho-ho) - a rectangular masonry "box". This allows you to sit the stove further back into the fireplace. It's still important to allow good circulation of air all around the stove as convection is arguably the most important mechanism for transferring heat into the air in the room.

It's preferable imho to have the flue pipe emerging vertically from the stove - without a major change in direction - most stoves have a removable baffle plate which allows sweeping the flue through the stove. This helps to avoid messy access plates and places where ash/dust can collect.

If the stove pipe is say 6 inches and the internal diameter of the ceramic flue liner is say 7 or 8 inches then you might be able to get away without a register plate - simply use some kind of "inceaser" e.g. http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/products.asp?partno=VIA60M...

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Author: NoodleBerry Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54560 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 16/09/2008 09:21
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I've just spotted this thing! http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/products.asp?partno=SA06 It's exactly what you will probably need but I think they're optimistic in thinking one could easily screw the top of it into ceramic flue liner material - I think a pressure fit sealed with a generous splodge of fire cement would be the best you could probably achieve.

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Author: UncleZen Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54564 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 17/09/2008 09:22
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I suppose its possible that I could block the entire fireplace opening with a large register plate with a hole of the correct size and in the correct position to mate up with the stove pipe from the woodburner. The wood burner would then sit on the hearth backed up to what was once the opening.

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Author: NoodleBerry Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54567 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 17/09/2008 09:34
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I suppose its possible that I could block the entire fireplace opening with a large register plate with a hole of the correct size and in the correct position to mate up with the stove pipe from the woodburner. The wood burner would then sit on the hearth backed up to what was once the opening.

That sounds possible but would be the least desirable option imho.

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Author: NoodleBerry Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54568 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 17/09/2008 09:46
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Also you'll probably find that the hearth isn't big enough (building regs specify minimum dimensions).

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Author: juggler100 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54570 of 77645
Subject: Re: Woodburner questions Date: 17/09/2008 10:19
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Here's a link to the relevant building requirements (Part J):

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADJ_2002....

I was surprised by the amount of detail. Note (for example) section 1.27.b which states that a liner suitable for solid fuel use could be 'imperforate clay pipes with sockets for jointing as in BS 65:1991 (1997)'

- so not just any clay liner, then.

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