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Author: Mike4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 393602  
Subject: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 08:43
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Hi everyone,

I'm trying to plan a train journey tonight from Reading to Paddington using nationalrail.co.uk

I'm being offered an off peak travelcard for a train leaving Reading at 17.30. Does this seem likely? Surely this is completely ON peak time!

I'm suspicious because I've had trouble in the past returning from Paddington with an off peak ticket, being refused travel on trains as late as 7.15 in the evening. I don't want to buy off peak tickets until I can establish what time an off peak travelcard ticket from Reading to Paddington becomes valid tonight. I really REALLY don't want to get to Reading station for 17.30 and find I have to wait an ahour and a half to get on a train, or pay extra for an on peak ticket!

There seems to be no way on the website of finding out when on peak and off peak periods begin and end. DAK?

Cheers!
M4
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Author: TMFBoing Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298476 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 09:00
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I'm being offered an off peak travelcard for a train leaving Reading at 17.30. Does this seem likely? Surely this is completely ON peak time!

Can't help with the actual times, but the off-peak restrictions refer to the London end, not the Reading end - you're not allowed to arrive in London during peak hours.

Best,
Alan

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Author: Mike4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298478 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 09:05
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Can't help with the actual times, but the off-peak restrictions refer to the London end, not the Reading end - you're not allowed to arrive in London during peak hours.

Ah that's a help at least. Thanks. Now, how to find out what those times are.

And what happens if I buy an off peak ticket and get on a train that arrives too early? Will they imprison me on the platform till 7.00pm (or whenever)?


Cheers!
M4

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Author: Trillis100 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298482 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 09:33
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And what happens if I buy an off peak ticket and get on a train that arrives too early? Will they imprison me on the platform till 7.00pm (or whenever)?

I don't know! But at my local station, peak/off-peak is determined by the scheduled arrival/departure time, rather than the actual time (e.g. off-peak starts at 9.30am, and you cannot get on a delayed 9.29am train with an off peak ticket, even it it doesn't arrive till after 9.30).

If you're worried, it might be easier to phone them and ask.

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Author: RF9R Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298484 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 10:14
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For Travelcards which i believe are what you use in london, off peak is after 09:30 with no evening Peak.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/london/index_custo...

The evening peak only applies to Leaving major cities not arriving in them.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/london/index_custo...

If you are offered an off peak ticket via nationalrail website for a particular train - it is valid on that train/
RF

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Author: GeordieSteve Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298485 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 10:19
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There seems to be no way on the website of finding out when on peak and off peak periods begin and end. DAK?

According to the National Rail Enquiries Off Peak is...

Off-Peak - These tickets may have restrictions on the times that you can travel. These depend on the specific journey that you are making, but generally apply during the early morning (before 09.30, Monday to Friday), early evening for travel from major cities including London (15.30 to 19.15) or on certain days of the week

Thus I would expect if you are travelling to London in the evening you would be able to use off peak. Also if the ticket is available for sale for a specific train and you catch that train they cannot refuse you travel

GS

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Author: Melonfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298486 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 10:37
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They won't lock you up or retain you - they will charge you the extra, if they can be botehred.

Coming back from Plymouth the other day my lovely travel team, knowing my session ended at 5pm and Plymouth isn't that big, booked me a ticket at 6.43pm. I assumed this was the next available train but went straight to the station anyway and there was one at 5.52pm and 6.00pm. The 6.00pm one was due to get in earlier than the earlier train (ifswim).
I asked the guy at the ticket barrier "can I use this ticket on this train" and he said no, cos it was pre-booked, it was a special price, so I had to pay the difference to get the 6pm train.

I said I'd pay on the train as I'd left it too late and didn't have time to sort it before getting on. He was dubious, he's obviously not supposed to let you get on with the wrong ticket, but clearly couldn't be bothered to sort it out, and decided to let the train guard do it.

The train guard looked at the ticket, looked at me, delayed a second, punched it and gave it back.
He also obviously could not be bothered to deal with the issue. It's no skin off his nose, and it's not as if the train was overcrowded.

The ticket worked at barriers both ends so I wasn't trapped in anywhere.

I thought evening peak ended at 6.30pm in London, but it may depend on the actual trains as I know the Cambs one ends at some odd time like 6.43pm, presumably to stop you using one specific train and make you wait for the next one or something?

Mel

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Author: AleisterCrowley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298487 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 10:47
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yep, I'm on that line (at Slough)and I've never had any problems going in to London at any time after 9-30. The restrictions are London outwards IIRC (something stupid like 7-22pm first cheap train from Paddington!!)

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Author: ahenry Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298488 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:01
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yep, I'm on that line (at Slough)and I've never had any problems going in to London at any time after 9-30. The restrictions are London outwards IIRC (something stupid like 7-22pm first cheap train from Paddington!!)

You may find that the cheap tickets are only valid on the slower trains and not the Intercity 125s. You can still get an off peak tickets for the fast trains, but they are more expensive.

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Author: AleisterCrowley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298491 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:17
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Pretty sure you can use anything after 7-15pm apart from Heathrow Express which is always expensive (not that it would make sense to use it for Reading anyway as you'd have to change at Hayes)
I think the first cheap one at 7-22pm is an IC125 from memory

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Author: easydriver Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298492 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:23
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Travelling TO London from Reading there are no evening peak restrictions.

Travelling FROM London to Reading you can only use turbo (ie local) trains, not 125s, between (roughly) 1545 and 1915

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Author: AleisterCrowley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298493 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:31
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I see what you mean now ahenry - yes the slow Thames turbo (?)chuggers are OK any time of the evening.
If I'm going to Slough or Reading though, I'd rather kill time in the Mad Bishop (or The Victoria) and get a proper fast service !

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Author: Mike4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298494 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:34
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Thanks everyone, recs all around...

yep, I'm on that line (at Slough)and I've never had any problems going in to London at any time after 9-30. The restrictions are London outwards IIRC (something stupid like 7-22pm first cheap train from Paddington!!)


Yes we experience that every time we come back on an off-peak card too, contrary to what the website says. Yet on http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/london/index_custo... it states:

Day Travelcards (Off-Peak)
Can be used from 0930 Mondays to Fridays, all day Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays, on the day of validity and for any journey that starts before 0430 on the following day.


when in actual fact they cannot be used from Paddington to Reading unitl after the evening on peak time.

Which I guess is why I was asking in the first place. The website info is wrong!

Cheers!
M4

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Author: URRZZ Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298495 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:35
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There seems to be no way on the website of finding out when on peak and off peak periods begin and end. DAK?

Well, there is (sort of) and that's to do what you've done - to use the journey planner to look up the journey you want to make and see if off-peak tickets are offered. As other posters have said, the off-peak restrictions vary from route to route and station to station so there's no hard and fast rule that applies to all journeys.

From http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/offpeak.html

"Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets may require you to travel at specific times of day, days of the week or on a specific route.
Website journey planners can tell you when your ticket can be used – simply enter your outward and return journey times to see the trains you can travel on.


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Author: Melonfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298496 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:37
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Day Travelcards (Off-Peak)
Can be used from 0930 Mondays to Fridays, all day Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays, on the day of validity and for any journey that starts before 0430 on the following day.

when in actual fact they cannot be used from Paddington to Reading unitl after the evening on peak time.



I *think* that's the Tube/LUL/bus definition though, not the train one.

Mel

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Author: URRZZ Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298497 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 11:50
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when in actual fact they cannot be used from Paddington to Reading unitl after the evening on peak time.

No, as other posters have pointed out

they cannot be used on certain (high speed) trains from Paddington to Reading itl after the evening on peak time.

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Author: PrivateAye Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298498 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 12:00
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Can anyone explain this one:-

I requested a return ticket fro near Glasgow to York & told my secretary to take the cheapest. When she handed me off-peak tickets I thought i would end up in jail. How could the journey be off-peak?

Tuesday:
Depart suburbs at 8.20am
Arrive Glasgow about 8.45am
Depart Glasgow about 9.15am
Arrive York about 12.45pm

Depart York abot 3pm
Arrive Edinburgh about 5.45pm
Depart Edinburgh about 6pm
Arrice Glagow about 6.15pm



I had no problems (apart from the 3 hours delay caused by a signal failure).
So how come that trip was off peak???

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Author: Melonfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298499 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 12:02
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It doesn't involve London.

Mel

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Author: AleisterCrowley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298500 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 12:11
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they cannot be used on certain (high speed) trains from Paddington to Reading until after the evening on peak time.


You've got me thinking now... is this actually the case, or is it just that the slow Turbo trains don't have ticket barriers as they leave from the higher numbered platforms (and tickets are rarely checked)
(I suspect you are right but it doesn't differentiate between train types on my timetable)

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Author: RF9R Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298505 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 12:45
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No its certainly off peak as the train planner allows you to buy an off peak ticket on the 17:06 - other faster trains do not allow this as expected as they are peak. I agree then that these trains are odd - I think GW have maked these as off peak to comply with some regulation that forces them to run a number of off peak trains. very interesting!
RF

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Author: RF9R Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298507 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 13:00
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from this;
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/gwtgw/gr...

it looks like the off peak service is a condition of the franchise.

RF

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Author: Sassyka Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298509 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 13:14
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Depart York abot 3pm
Arrive Edinburgh about 5.45pm
Depart Edinburgh about 6pm
Arrice Glagow about 6.15pm


Did you fly from Edinburgh to Glasgow???? The train normally takes 50 mins at least.

The Glasgow-Edinburgh train has restrictions on travelling, the earliest train you can use with an off-peak is 0915 but cannot be used with the 1630-1815 inclusive. As your tickets were for a longer journey and no doubt stated Glasgow-York as opposed to York to Edinburgh then Edinburgh to Glasgow.

Anyway, I dont want to be getting my knuckles rapped for straying from the OP.

Cheers

Sassyka

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Author: URRZZ Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298516 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 14:08
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You've got me thinking now... is this actually the case, or is it just that the slow Turbo trains don't have ticket barriers as they leave from the higher numbered platforms (and tickets are rarely checked)
(I suspect you are right but it doesn't differentiate between train types on my timetable)



Actaully, having had a look at the National Rail journey planner to try to answer your question, it is a bit weird and not how I understood it (it's a few years since I did this journey). There ARE off-peak fares showing up as being available from Paddington and Reading between 17:00 and 18:30, but they're not actually Thames Turbo services - they're both First Great Western services - the 17:06 to Westbury and the 18:06 to Frome.

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Author: conmurf Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298518 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 14:14
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I'm being offered an off peak travelcard for a train leaving Reading at 17.30. Does this seem likely? Surely this is completely ON peak time!

You'll be very much off-peak for Reading to London, as it is completely against the flow at that time of the evening. I make the journey at a similar time on average about once a fortnight, and always get an off-peak ticket.

HTH

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Author: conmurf Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298519 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 20/11/2009 14:16
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Sorry, I really should have read the whole thread before replying.

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Author: SteelCamel Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 298559 of 393602
Subject: Re: When off peak train times begin/end? Date: 21/11/2009 13:35
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So how come that trip was off peak???

Because off-peak is a very flexible concept! One journey I make regularly has only off-peak tickets available, no Anytime ticket exists - and off-peak is "by any train"!

As far as I can see the only way to find out the exact terms of the restriction is to consult "The Manual", formerly the National Fares Manual. Ticket offices should have a copy, or you can buy your own - but it costs about 20 quid and changes several times a year.
The journey planner will show you which trains you can use, but it only copes with the fastest journey - if you want to take a slower train (maybe it's less crowded) or break your journey, it won't help.

I do wonder if the train companies are on slightly dodgy ground legally - if the time restrictions are part of the contract for travel, then customers should have the chance to see them before purchasing a ticket. As I understand it you can't enforce a contract where one party hasn't has a chance to see the terms before agreeing.

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