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Author: GTFCTIM Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 94198  
Subject: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 16:55
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The rear of my house is on a road which is unadopted. It looks exactly the same as any adopted road (street lighting, tarmac road etc), and is the access to my garage. I'm having a problem with people parking thier cars in the morning, going to work, and coming back around 5pm obvioously leaving the cars there all day.

There are signs up saying "Private Road, Residents parking only", but these just get ignored.

I'm wanting to know what I can legally do to stop these people parking here all day?

Tim.
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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35022 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 17:15
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I'm wanting to know what I can legally do to stop these people parking here all day?

A pratical option may be to install a security post which you lock in the upright posistion as a barrier when you are not using the space.

You may be able to implement a clamping scheme (a local company may be prepared to do this for free as they keep the proceeds).
You will of course need to abide by the relevant legislation and I wouldn't be suprised if you only own part of the area and the rest is ahread with others so you ought to get agreement from neighbours.

Also bear in mind that if it's private then you may be reponsible for maintaining the tarmac i.e. any damage from large clamping trucks.
As a private parking area it may not have been made up to a standard for heavy tow trucks.
Nevertheless if may provide enough of a deterent.

Another option is some form of gates with padlocks for the resident.



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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35023 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 17:17
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Another option of course would be asking the people nicely not to park there are perhaps warning them you are considering further action i.e. note on the windscreen.

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Author: janetsbears Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35024 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 17:19
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I'm wanting to know what I can legally do to stop these people parking here all day?

Got any mates with large vehicles that they could leave there blocking the cars in for a couple of days?

Chris


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Author: GTFCTIM Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35026 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 17:46
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Thanks for replies.

Yes I am part owner with around 6 other residents. This parking only happens outside my house.

So am I ok legally to get a clamping company involved?

I have already left many polite notes on cars, which are just ignored.

Also the road is of exactly the same standard as other council maintained roads, if not better, so I doubt there would be any trouble from clamping trucks.

If I do block one of the cars in, what rights have they got when asking me to move it?

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Author: strategist100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35027 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 18:03
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Introduce a charge and a penalty scheme - it's your land!

SarahStrat

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Author: martint123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35028 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 19:00
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Buy a nice big tin of yellow paint and a brush?

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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35029 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 19:16
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So am I ok legally to get a clamping company involved?

Yes if you do it yourself then you would have to comply with the relevant legislation (like having clear notices) but hopefully a clamping company will take care of that.

If I do block one of the cars in, what rights have they got when asking me to move it?

They have NO right of access.
You are entitled to park there.
I don't think they have any rights at all.

You could tell them it's not your car and cause them a great deal of inconvenience.

Personally I think this would be better solved without personal confrontation (using a clamping company distances you somewhat).
It's all too easy for someone to slash your tyres/ put a brick through your window/ scratch your car in the dead of night.

If you have a garage perhaps you should consider using it for a while when the clamping is introduced to protect your car jsut in case someone decides to get nasty.




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Author: IsleofWightPete Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35031 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 21:04
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They have NO right of access.
You are entitled to park there.
I don't think they have any rights at all.


Do you have any basis for this assertion?

As far as I was aware, it is a highway, reagardless of whether it is owned by private individuals or the council, and as such the general public have a right to use it both to drive on and stop on. I was under the impression that owners of an unadopted road have virtually no rights to control the usage of the road, merely duties as far as the repair is concerned, and potential laibilities should they fail to maintain it.

However, I am not speaking from specific knowledge, and I would be very interested to know if I have got this wrong.


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Author: Clitheroekid Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35032 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 21:06
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If it's the same cars all the time, get the name of their registered keepers by sending details of their registration numbers to DVLA. There's a small fee to obtain these details.

When they arrive, write by recorded delivery to each of the registered keepers saying that you represent the owners of the road (it would be sensible to obtain the others' agreement first!) and that with immediate effect you are introducing a parking charge of £50 per day or part of a day. Go on to say that if they continue to park thereafter they will be deemed to have agreed these terms.

It could pay for a jolly neighbourhood party!

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Author: IsleofWightPete Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35033 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 21/09/2006 21:54
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As far as I was aware, it is a highway, reagardless of whether it is owned by private individuals or the council, and as such the general public have a right to use it both to drive on and stop on...........

Answering my own post!
It seems a private road MAY well be a highway but it is not necessarily so.

Private roads (also known as "unadopted roads") are different in that they don't belong to the local authority, and the local authority is not under a duty to maintain them. But a private road may nonetheless be a highway for one or more classes of traffic. A private road can become a highway through use by the public over a period of time. Private through-roads sometimes become highways in this way, though private cul-de-sacs rarely do so. (Whether a public right of way exists for mechanically propelled vehicles depends also upon the effect of Part 6 of the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006, which came into effect on 2 May 2006.)

So it would certainly be worth checking the situation thoroughly before you go gung-ho with some of the ideas in this thread, or you could find yourself in quite a bit of bother.

The site I found this information on may actually be of some help to you, as it is specifically designed to help owners of private roads and offers a starter kit and advice packages for residents associations managing private roads.

http://www.privateroads.co.uk/index.html


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Author: 5nowball Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35035 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 00:37
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As far as I was aware, it is a highway, reagardless of whether it is owned by private individuals or the council, and as such the general public have a right to use it both to drive on and stop on.

AIUI, there is no right to park on the highway, and doing so leaves you open to a charge of obstructing the highway.

A right of way is by and large just that, a right of getting from somewhere to somewhere else, not to be there - a fact that came in useful when a neighbour used to claim (falsely) that she had a right of way onto my land (which didn't actually lead anywhere) so could park on my drive.

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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35040 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 08:43
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Do you have any basis for this assertion?

I can't say for certain (because I don't have the land registry information in front of me) but I have owned two private areas of land before.

The first was a similar shared area where each person has their own parking space (often in front of garage) and the access way is shared.
This is not owned by the authorities, this is private land and as such other motorists have no right to be on this private land unless they are invited guests i.e. If you have a private driveway which YOU own I don't think I have the right to come and park there because it's YOUR private land in the same way that a garden is.

Of course there is a difference between roads which are to be adopted and those which are privately owned.
I could be wrong but I was under the impression that this is entirely privately owned.

I don't thikn I have the right to go on private land unless there is a public right of way.


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Author: strategist100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35042 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 08:56
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An easy way to find out if a right of way exists is to put up a gate and see who objects and if these objections are upheld by the Highways Authority (usually the Council). This works with any of the types of right of way (highway, bridleway, RUPP i.e. "road used as a public path", or footpath). In case it is ever of use to anyone, the concept of a RUPP is worth understanding. This is a roadway, typically on farmland, where a public right of way by foot is created in the road, but there is no right of way for wheeled vehicles.

SarahStrat

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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35045 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 09:45
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As far as I was aware, it is a highway

In my current contract, the private road to my house is defined as a "private driveway".

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Author: madwolf Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35046 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 09:58
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In case it is ever of use to anyone, the concept of a RUPP is worth understanding. This is a roadway, typically on farmland, where a public right of way by foot is created in the road, but there is no right of way for wheeled vehicles.

RUPPs no longer exist.

All have been reclassified as a Byway Open To All Traffic (BOAT) or Restricted Byway, under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_way_in_the_United_Kingdom

Gaz

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Author: strategist100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35047 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 10:26
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I stand corrected, take a rec.

SarahStrat

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Author: FrancisBaines Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35051 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 11:59
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Of course there is a difference between roads which are to be adopted and those which are privately owned.
I could be wrong but I was under the impression that this is entirely privately owned.


There is, but the difference is not necessarily coterminous with the difference between roads which are highways and roads which are not.


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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35052 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 12:12
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There is, but the difference is not necessarily coterminous with the difference between roads which are highways and roads which are not.

I am reading between the lines a bit but this sounds like a dead end round the back of houses that leads only to garages, parking spaces and rear gates.
It would have thought it would be most unlikely to be a highway and I would have expected a conveyancer to have notified the buyer about it if that was the case.

You would expect them to tell you if there was a right of way through your garden so surely they have a duty to notify you about a "highway" that would have an affect on you.



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Author: strategist100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35053 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 12:32
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But it may not be "Highway" until it is established it is "Highway", if you see what I mean. Until such time as it is recorded as such in a formal record, it wouldn't be picked up on a search and I doubt a conveyancer would raise the issue unless there was some question in the mind of the purchaser.

SarahStrat

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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35054 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 12:41
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But it may not be "Highway" until it is established it is "Highway", if you see what I mean

So are you saying that my "private driveway" (that is quite long and goes past 5 houses) which already has a contract can suddenly be turned into a highway?

Or does this only apply to old roads where the documents have been lost and no-one knows what the situation is?

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Author: strategist100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35056 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 13:28
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So are you saying that my "private driveway" (that is quite long and goes past 5 houses) which already has a contract can suddenly be turned into a highway?

If enough people could swear that they have used it for a long time as a route from Road A to Road B, then yes. If it's a cul-de-sac though it's highly unlikely they could establish proof it was used as a highway. The fact that you have other forms of access rights does not prevent this occurring: it's usage, and the status of the user, that is key. Those using the route for access to their own property would acquire rights for themselves (and successors at their property) to cross the land for access, but this would not turn it into a public highway.

I'm dealing with a complaint about this very subject at present!

SarahStrat

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Author: GTFCTIM Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35057 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 13:38
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OK, i have been told by the council that the road is a right of way, so I cant put any gates up. There is a bowling club, and a motor garage.

I do have a garage, and my car stays in there every night.

r.e. the idea of sending letters out to the owners of the cars, how would I then get the money off them when they continued to park there?

And then the issue of getting the road adopted by the council. The road is of the same standard as the adopted roads in the area. Does anyone know what is involved with getting a road adopted by the local council?

Many thanks, Tim.

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Author: lisawilcox100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35058 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 14:01
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r.e. the idea of sending letters out to the owners of the cars, how would I then get the money off them when they continued to park there?

If the scheme is legal then you would have to pursue them through the courts. This is hassle, costs money and time and there is no point pursuing people who have no money (although they all clearly have cars).
I would therefore have thought it would have been easier to get a 3rd party to handle it.
They would get the money, but they would be responsible for making sure it's legal and pursuing the people. If they are clamping or towing then obviously it's easier to get money out of people because otherwise they don't get their car.

Does anyone know what is involved with getting a road adopted by the local council?

I don't know but I would imagine it's very difficult unless there are unusual circumstances.
The council won't want to take on the maintenance (maintaining tarmac and the drains is expensive) so I think you will have a big job on your hands.



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Author: janetsbears Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35059 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 14:06
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And then the issue of getting the road adopted by the council. The road is of the same standard as the adopted roads in the area. Does anyone know what is involved with getting a road adopted by the local council?

I seem to remember seeing something somewhere that implied that if the road is brought up to a certain standard you can force the council to adopt it. Sadly, I can't remember where!

Chris


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Author: janetsbears Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35060 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 14:11
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I seem to remember seeing something somewhere that implied that if the road is brought up to a certain standard you can force the council to adopt it. Sadly, I can't remember where!

Maybe it was section 38 of the Highways Act 1980 that I was once reading :-|

Chris


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Author: strategist100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35061 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 22/09/2006 14:13
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I can answer the last bit about the adoption.

Write to the Highways Dept at the Council and ask if they will consider adopting the Highway (a map would help). Explain that there is a right of way to commercial premises used by the public and you would like to request they adopt from Point A to Point B.

The reason I mention public use is that this can be a significant factor when deciding yes/no. You should also ask all the other residents to sign, and they will want to survey the road to check what they would be taking on. You can lobby your local councillors too, they tend to get consulted on these things.

Be aware that there may be some costs if there are under-spec elements of the highway. It's not just the surfacing, but also the kerbs, lighting and drainage that are considered. You can always opt out if this gets too costly, but I know in some areas houses on unadopted roads are a bit harder to sell.

SarahStrat

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Author: GTFCTIM Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 35070 of 94198
Subject: Re: Unadopted Road Parking. Date: 23/09/2006 09:22
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Hi. I am GTFCTIM's wife. I personally do not want the Council to adopt it. IMO that would mean double yellow lines (then I could not park there) or a "Permit Only" parking scheme (I do not want to pay for the parking in front of my own house). I just want these people to just stop parking here all day.

I think that only something along the lines of clamping will work. I don't think once someone is clamped, they will return.

Anyway, I just want to make sure they get the message to not park here all day.

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