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Author: calmlyrational Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 389483  
Subject: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:07
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The BBC news website describes Tecwen Whittock as the "former" college lecturer. DAK why this is? Was he sacked? On what grounds would this be, I wonder.

Someone I once knew who had the same job as him was I thought a dishonest manipulator - I'm not implying of course that TW was or is.
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Author: Flure Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58359 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:16
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AFAIR he resigned after the verdict.

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Author: g00seman Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58361 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:21
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It said during last nights ITV News that the three were considering an appeal. After watching the WWTBAM Major Fraud program last night I was wondering on what grounds?

Surely the question on Who designed Paris, was evidence enough to convict?

g00seman

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Author: calmlyrational Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58362 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:28
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I didnt see the programme. Did it seem from the programme, not the documentary, that they were guilty?

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Author: mouseketeer Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58364 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:33
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The BBC news website describes Tecwen Whittock as the "former" college lecturer. DAK why this is? Was he sacked? On what grounds would this be, I wonder.

No, Whitless did the decent thing and fell on his sword.

Someone I once knew who had the same job as him was I thought a dishonest manipulator - I'm not implying of course that TW was or is.

Why not? That's the decision that the court came to.

FWIW, the treacherous trio tried to obtain an injunction to prevent the broadcast of Basher's documentary on the grounds that they were seeking leave to appeal. If the Appeal Court watched the documentary, they'll have (cough cough)<loud whisper>NO</loud whisper> chance!


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Author: TroutMaskReplica Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58365 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:36
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I didnt see the programme. Did it seem from the programme, not the documentary, that they were guilty?

I think the clincher for me was the 'cough...no' shout when the Major was going for Berlin instead of Paris. Very funny.

I didn't watch the actual show as I'd got bored by then, but I still don't think that this would give a fair account of what it would have sounded like in the actual studio at the time. The way they turned up the volume of the coughs was pretty damning, but even if you could hear the coughs on the transmission, this still doesnlt 'prove' that the Major could hear them on the night. Looked very dodgy though!

Still. Great TV.

TMR

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Author: scribbler101 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58366 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 15:36
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The major is clearly not sharp. By the time I got to court I would have been explaining recalling shopping on the Boulevard Haussman as my reason for change of heart.

I think this would only have got to trial with a very strong case, let alone a guilty verdict. Though the moral case against playing tricks on WWTBAM is marginal at best. The program does, after all, gain a massive and largely undisclosed income from premium rate phone calls to get on. It would be fun for a few large employers to sue it for conspiracy to cause misuse of their phones.

And WWTBAM now admits that its 50/50 USED not to be a fair random - yet they refused to acknowledge this when I challenged them. Surely this was no less fraud?

And Tarrant's style of dress is pure Mafia!

S101

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Author: nybbler Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58368 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 16:01
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No, Whitless did the decent thing and fell on his sword.

It doesn't sound like he would've had much choice. Two days later he was due to face a disciplinary hearing for bringing Pontypridd College into disrepute.

nybbler

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Author: mouseketeer Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58369 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 16:02
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And WWTBAM now admits that its 50/50 USED not to be a fair random - yet they refused to acknowledge this when I challenged them.

That accounts for the high number of times that a contestant says "I'm pretty sure it's either Paris or Berlin, so I'll use my 50/50," only to see Athens and Rome disappear, leaving him no better off.

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Author: Greatrakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58371 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 16:23
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It doesn't sound like he would've had much choice. Two days later he was due to face a disciplinary hearing for bringing Pontypridd College into disrepute.

Is Pontypridd a real place, then? I thought it was that place where Fireman Sam and his friends lived.

G

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Author: scribbler101 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58374 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 17:01
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That accounts for the high number of times that a contestant says "I'm pretty sure it's either Paris or Berlin, so I'll use my 50/50," only to see Athens and Rome disappear, leaving him no better off.


If this happens now when they say "...and one RANDOM wrong answer.", then tarrant too should be in court - but I don't think it does any more than statistics would predict.

Whereas previously I had an almost 100% success rate at predicting what would be left if I knew the answer and there was one alternative that seemed more credible/attractive than the rest. This would have been a prime example, Paris correct but a German sounding name.

S101


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Author: scribbler101 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58377 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 17:05
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Is Pontypridd a real place, then? I thought it was that place where Fireman Sam and his friends lived.

G


Pontypridd (pronounced "...preeth") is not merely real but grittily so.

And it has a bridge, "bont/pont" being one of those Welsh words like Eglws/Eglise where Welsh has taken a French word but English not.

S101

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Author: BumpyBecky Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58378 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 17:23
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Is Pontypridd a real place, then? I thought it was that place where Fireman Sam and his friends lived.


I am reliably informed (by my four year old daughter) that Fireman Sam lives in Pontypandy.

HTH
Becky :)

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Author: scribbler101 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58381 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 18:33
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I am reliably informed (by my four year old daughter) that Fireman Sam lives in Pontypandy.

HTH
Becky :)



Doubtless 4yo is right, though to live in Pontypandy Sam should really be a fuller (of cloth). Perhaps the old fuller's mill by the bridge has been converted to a "Gorsaf Dan", as Sam would call the fire station.

Noswaith dda

S101 bach

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Author: AndyGadget Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58388 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 21:53
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OK, so what happens in this case (or any other legal case) if the major and his cronies appeal and the appeal is upheld - i.e. he is found to be innocent of any wrongdoing? (And pigs might . . . )

Does the documentary about the program then become libellous, or is there some legal protection for the TV company for that period where he was considered guilty in the lower court?

Andy.

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Author: collectingbrass Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58389 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 22/04/2003 22:20
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And where was their right to reply?

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Author: therm0stat Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58400 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 08:44
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And WWTBAM now admits that its 50/50 USED not to be a fair random - yet they refused to acknowledge this when I challenged them. Surely this was no less fraud?

How do they pick the two random/ non-random answers (or whatever they are called) and how did you challenge them?

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Author: g00seman Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58402 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 08:47
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And where was their right to reply?

I would assume that the three of them were invited onto the ITV news afterwards, but only TW took up the offer.

It was class when he said "of course the other contestant saw me cough, that's because I did cough"

;oD

g00seman

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Author: Grelot Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58410 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 09:48
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And WWTBAM now admits that its 50/50 USED not to be a fair random

How do they pick the two random/ non-random answers?


What it seems to me they used to do - with monotonous regularity - was to wait until a competitor had said something like "I think it's Paris, but it might be Berlin.", then they stripped away Rome and Lisbon. Audience gasps!

If that really happened, it was, prima facie, fraudulent. But now, of course, having made millions themselves from a case that should never have been a criminal case but rather have been one for the civil courts, they have to be more circumspect (i.e., they can't [apparently] cheat so blatantly.).

It might be that the producers of WWTBAM felt their case in the civil courts would be less likely to be successful, or simply that it might have garnered less publicity. Either way, don't feed their rapacious profiteering, and switch off.

Grelot

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Author: therm0stat Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58412 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 09:58
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Either way, don't feed their rapacious profiteering, and switch off.

here, here.

There is a lot of good points raised here. I may nip over to LoST to continue this thread.

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Author: Swill453 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58417 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 10:27
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What it seems to me they used to do - with monotonous regularity - was to wait until a competitor had said something like "I think it's Paris, but it might be Berlin.", then they stripped away Rome and Lisbon.

I didn't believe it was as blatant as that, however it looked like they chose in advance the answer that was most likely to be confused with the correct one.

In the example given, Berlin would be the obvious one as Haussman is a German sounding name (as the Major pointed out :-).

Having said that it appears to be more random now. In the past you could guess what was going to be left but I've got it wrong recently.

Scott.

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Author: Grelot Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58429 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 11:13
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Having said that it appears to be more random now. In the past you could guess what was going to be left but I've got it wrong recently.

So maybe what you're saying is they used to defraud but now, following their successful criminal case, they have toned down their illegal activities?

It still sucks

Grelot


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Author: Swill453 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58432 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 11:22
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So maybe what you're saying is they used to defraud but now, following their successful criminal case, they have toned down their illegal activities?

Did they claim it was random? Probably yes, I vaguely remember Chris saying "Computer, take away 2 random wrong answers", although that might be more recent.

Scott.

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Author: didds2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58443 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 12:34
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It might be that the producers of WWTBAM felt their case in the civil courts would be less likely to be successful

Unlikely ... after all, in a criminal case the case has to be proved "beyond reasonable doubt" wheras in a civil case the case can be proved "on the balance of probabilities".

I still see no hard evidence that they cheated - all I see is extremely circumstantial happenings.

Don't get found beside a fresh cadaver with no murder weapon found now whatever you do!

or simply that it might have garnered less publicity.

Possibly. Although Catherine Zeta-Jones' wedding photo mularkey seemed to get a fair amount of publicity and that was a civil case.

didds2

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Author: FrancisBaines Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58445 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 12:40
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And it has a bridge, "bont/pont" being one of those Welsh words like Eglws/Eglise where Welsh has taken a French word but English not.

It's more accurate in almost every incidence of this in Welsh to say that Welsh retains the Latin word, which English was never exposed to.


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Author: scribbler101 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58465 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 14:08
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And WWTBAM now admits that its 50/50 USED not to be a fair random - yet they refused to acknowledge this when I challenged them. Surely this was no less fraud?

How do they pick the two random/ non-random answers (or whatever they are called) and how did you challenge them?


It is easy to program a computer to pick at random. (or pseudo-random, for those who should be in pedants corner).

I wrote them a letter saying that I could predict 50/50 choices with astonishing accuracy, and did not think myself psychic. Reply was meaningless, but a bit later they formally stated that from now on 50/50 was random, thus effectively admitting it previously had not been.

Which, IMHO, was just as dishonest as a bit of coughing. If not more so.

S101

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Author: heaven17man Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58476 of 389483
Subject: Re: Tecwen Whittock WWTBAM Date: 23/04/2003 15:33
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It is easy to program a computer to pick at random. (or pseudo-random, for those who should be in pedants corner).

Given that they only need to choose one answer at random from a choice of three (because 50/50 will always include the right answer) then why go to all the bother of a computer? Roll a dice then key the selection to the computer would be good enough.



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