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Author: UnclePhilip Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 60729  
Subject: State pension 2015/6 Date: 17/03/2013 19:59
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Reading in the paper that the date for this new SP of £144 will now be 2015 not 16 got me thinking.

Does this mean that the basic SP will be £144 for all pensioners? Even those who reach 65 before then?

Uncle
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Author: ajc5001 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58450 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 01:02
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Reading in the paper that the date for this new SP of £144 will now be 2015 not 16 got me thinking.

Actually, the new proposal is to start in 2016 instead of 2017, if the BBC is to be believed.

"The chancellor disclosed two new measures on Sunday, telling the BBC that the government would bring forward its changes to pensions and social care funding.

The proposed flat-tier pension, worth about £144 a week, would now start in 2016, a year earlier than previously planned.

Mr Osborne told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show that the "generous" flat-tier pension would be "a huge boost for people who want to save for their retirement".

He also said that a cap on the amount the elderly pay for social care in England, originally planned to be set at £75,000 and introduced in 2017, will now also be introduced in 2016 at a level of £72,000."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21800406

Does this mean that the basic SP will be £144 for all pensioners? Even those who reach 65 before then?

No. The full proposal is in http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/single-tier-pension.pdf

From http://www.pensionsworld.co.uk/pw/article/altmanns-qa-on-new...
" What about existing pensioners?

They are excluded. Nobody who reaches state pension age before April 2017 will be included, so there will be a sharp cut-off between those born just before or just after the new scheme starts."

(With 2017 now being 2016, of course!)

Adrian

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Author: Mearnsfool Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58454 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 09:28
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The £144 pw flat rate pension was from April 2017, therefore if as advised it starts at April 2016 a simple calculation shows if we assume inflation about 3%, the value at April 2016 will be nearer £140 a week unless this is the chancellor increasing the state pension above inflation at April 2016!

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Author: Swill453 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58455 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 09:36
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The £144 pw flat rate pension was from April 2017, therefore if as advised it starts at April 2016 a simple calculation shows if we assume inflation about 3%, the value at April 2016 will be nearer £140 a week unless this is the chancellor increasing the state pension above inflation at April 2016!

No it was £144 in today's money (2013) so it will be more, increasing in line with earnings.

(The proposal is for it to be set above the Guaranteed Minimum Pension, currently £142+change)

Scott.

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Author: paultry One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58456 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 10:30
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ajc5001

Thank you for the links.

My retirement date is 27 April 2016, I have 30 contribution years. The system as from April 2010 means I will receive a full state pension.

The new system implementation date means that I will qualify for the new single tier pension, but will I now require 35 years contributions? 9 of the 30 contribution years were voluntary, and I was specifically advised that paying for more than 30 years would not be beneficial.

With 30 years I will still be better off as 30/35 x £144 = £123.42 as compared to the present £109.50.

Depending on the present day cost of additional years I'm almost certainly going to pay for the extra five years. I'm guessing it will be around £650/year x 5 years = £3,250

The weekly pension will increase by £144 - £123.42 = £20.58

Break even point will be £3250/£20.58 = 158 weeks, or 3 years.

Apart from an early demise, what's not to like?

PaulT

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Author: binalurkin Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58457 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 10:50
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The new system implementation date means that I will qualify for the new single tier pension, but will I now require 35 years contributions? 9 of the 30 contribution years were voluntary, and I was specifically advised that paying for more than 30 years would not be beneficial.

With 30 years I will still be better off as 30/35 x £144 = £123.42 as compared to the present £109.50.

Depending on the present day cost of additional years I'm almost certainly going to pay for the extra five years. I'm guessing it will be around £650/year x 5 years = £3,250


The "Old" system giving you some £105 pw basic OAP for 30 years NI records took no account of, was not reduced by, any "Contracted Out" pension membership.

I THINK ( it is near as clear as mud) that the £144 PWk new system for 35 years NI record is on the basis of all of your NI years being Contracted-IN to SEPS-S2P. If any of your NI record years were contracted-OUT, then this £144+ max is reduced to allow for the fact that you will be getting some further pension from that Contracted-Out pension, whether this is an Employers Contracted Out pension or a NI Rebate collecting personal pension.

Should you have been self employed for all of these years you would never have been in SERPS-S2P, won't have any benefit from same, could not have been Contracted Out of something you were not "IN" and presumably will not have any reductions if you have the full NI years of credit.

While Ladies can get credit for non working years looking after young children, I don't know whether this can apply to non working single fathers brining up young children.

If single Fathers are excluded, or even non working married "Househusbands" looking after Children, look up the address of the EU Court and see if Cherie Blair ( I forget her maiden name ) will take on your case on a Pro Bono basis, she has not had much publicity of late, so may be happy to get her name in the papers again!

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Author: NK104 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58458 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 12:20
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The stuff on transition is Chapter 4 of the White Paper, and I advise a cup of coffee before reading.

At transition people will start with the better of their entitlements under the old and new system. With people who have contracted-out rights, their position is lowered by a 'rebate-derived amount' (to account as binalurkin says) for the fact that pension is being built up elsewhere.

The 'rebate-derived amount' is supposed to be be broadly equivalent to the value of any additional state pension a person would have been entitled to had they not made contributions on a contracted-out basis after 1996/97.

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Author: paultry One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58459 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 13:01
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The link to 'pensionsworld' is actually the most useful and addresses all the 'ifs' and 'buts' that I have been pondering.

No doubt lots of discussion will emerge in the press in the coming days.

Assuming it does go ahead on 6th April 2016, and NOT 2017 (although it was initially suggested to be from 2016) I'm extremely grateful to have been born on the 27th April. I just think of all my old school chums who were just that bit older than me who are stuck with the old system. But there is still plenty of time for the rules to change again.
PaulT

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Author: pendas Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58460 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 15:08
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Depending on the present day cost of additional years I'm almost certainly going to pay for the extra five years. I'm guessing it will be around £650/year x 5 years = £3,250

The weekly pension will increase by £144 - £123.42 = £20.58

Break even point will be £3250/£20.58 = 158 weeks, or 3 years.

Apart from an early demise, what's not to like?



Assume that the lost capital was invested in equities earning 7% and that the pension increase is effectively taxed at 20% if your income exceeds the tax free allowance and the payback period is then over 5 years.

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Author: paultry One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58461 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 18:29
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pendas

You are quite correct, I will pay tax on the increased payment.

Interestingly, in the 'pensionsworld' link, it states that the cost of a year's NI contributions will be approximately £350, it is stated twice so I guess and hope it is not a typo error.

This means, at least for me, 5 years x £350 = £1750

Break even point £1750/£20.58 = 85 weeks, or 1.75 years.

Assuming a tax rate of 20%, 1.75 years x 5/4 = 2.18 years.

This makes it extremely attractive in my view.

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Author: Vincent48 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58462 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 18:48
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If single Fathers are excluded, or even non working married "Househusbands" looking after Children, look up the address of the EU Court and see if Cherie Blair ( I forget her maiden name ) will take on your case on a Pro Bono basis, she has not had much publicity of late, so may be happy to get her name in the papers again!

Cherie Booth.

Hint: You just have to Google "'Til Death Do Us Part" --> Anthony Booth

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Author: Mearnsfool Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58463 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 18/03/2013 19:43
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There was talk on the Podcast by the pensions minister and Ros Altman when the new pension was announced that there will be a one off offer when the final details of the new pension are detailed that those with missing years can buy years back at a discount to the cost today.

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Author: paultry One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58464 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 19/03/2013 10:50
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Mearnsfool

I could not locate the podcast. But I rather believe your information since just a year ago my wife purchased 2 years of voluntary contributions which were £626.60 each, that is a total of £1250.

Hence, my original assertion that £650 is the going rate, so just possibly the £350ish in the 'pensionsworld' document is the 'one-off offer' that you have alerted me to.

Thanks, PaulT

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Author: Mearnsfool Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58465 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 19/03/2013 11:46
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Here is a link to the Podcast and the transcript. They are talking about being able to buy past years at around £300 or so for some years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ptzt5#programme-broadcast...

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Author: mittler100 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58470 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 08:18
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The entire current State Pension is grossly unfair to all those women who in the 60s/70s had no option but to stay home and care for their children either because their husbands jobs involved unsocial hours /shifts etc or because part time work was very difficult to get

Many of these women have since cared for grandchildren or elderly parents and thus only receive £64 a week in state pension

To exclude existing pensioners who had to work for 39 years to qualify for full state pension from the new flat rate pension that only 30 years is needed for is a gross miscarriage of justice especially if they are struggling to survive on savings income which has been deliberately savaged by government policies for last 5 yrs and for years to come

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Author: UnclePhilip Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58473 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 10:16
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OK, so now I'm getting confused.

I'm born Feb 1952, so the move from 2017 to 2016 affects me diectly, does it?

So instead of about £100 uplifted from now, I'll get about £140 uplifted from now?

Really? That would be nice!

However, is it right what I read that instead of needing 30 qualifying years I'll need 35 qualifying years? Really?

Puzzled, but now deeply and keenly interested. Can someone please clarify all this?

Thanks,

Uncle

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Author: JoeEasedale Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58474 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 10:32
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The 40 odd years that used to be required was reduced to 30 years some time ago. All the stuff on the new flat rate pension clearly states 35 years. It is because they are integrating folks contracted in and contracted out - or so they say, but yes with the new flat rate you will need 35 years.

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Author: tjh290633 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58476 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 10:53
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I'm born Feb 1952, so the move from 2017 to 2016 affects me diectly, does it?

So instead of about £100 uplifted from now, I'll get about £140 uplifted from now?

Really? That would be nice!

However, is it right what I read that instead of needing 30 qualifying years I'll need 35 qualifying years? Really?


Yes, it affects you, but probably not by very much, because the State Pension depends on your record up to the last complete tax year before you retire.

That means that what you will have earned at your date of retirement will not have changed, and will become your "Foundation amount".

Go to https://www.gov.uk/changes-state-pension and click on the link to "single tier pension", then on the first link to the big PDF file, which will bring up http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/single-tier-pension.pdf

Now look at Chapter 4, and the odds are that you will be in the category which has a foundation amount greater than the single tier pension, as set out in Section 3 of Chapter 4.

Presumably you haven't been idle for the last 30 years or so, so you will have entitlement to "Additional Pension" and probably "Graduated Pension". If you or your employer were contracted out of SERP at any time, then you will have a "Contracted out deduction" (COD) which accounts for pension paid to you from other sources, which replaced SERP. If you have a forecast of your expected State Pension, all this should be clear.

TJH

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Author: UnclePhilip Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58477 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 11:21
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Hello TJH,

Presumably you haven't been idle for the last 30 years or so, so you will have entitlement to "Additional Pension" and probably "Graduated Pension". If you or your employer were contracted out of SERP at any time, then you will have a "Contracted out deduction" (COD) which accounts for pension paid to you from other sources, which replaced SERP. If you have a forecast of your expected State Pension, all this should be clear.

Far from idle, but a patchy NI history and bugger-all additions; will have 33 qualifying years by 65 assuming next four years continue to pay self employed rate or voluntary if stop working. Pension Forecast says full basic State Pension.

So, instead of £107.45 uprated, will it be 33/35ths of £142.70 uprated?

Uncle

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Author: richjfool Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58478 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 15:17
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There's an article on the new Flat rate pension and effective date here:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/385472/Pens...

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Author: tjh290633 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58479 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 17:39
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Pension Forecast says full basic State Pension.

So, instead of £107.45 uprated, will it be 33/35ths of £142.70 uprated?


That's what it says on page 46 of the document:

An individual’s National Insurance record will be valued under the rules of the single-tier system. The calculation will be as follows:

Single-tier valuation:
Number of pre-implementation qualifying years x £144/35

TJH

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Author: yossa123 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58480 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 17:51
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Can you still buy additional years. If so, how is that calculated?

Regards

Jeff

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Author: Mearnsfool Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58482 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 20/03/2013 18:31
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Uncle Philip

Two things here the self employed stamp may well increase soon as self employed people are now part of the £144 pension for the years going forward.

Hints have been dropped via certain pension periodicals that suggest if you have any contracted out years in your national insurance record the £144 pension may be reduced by the amount of the basic second state pension which is around £1.50 per week per year of second state pension.

For the other poster, later this year or early next year there should be a chance to buy missing years of National Insurance credits at a reduced rate for the new flat rate pension.

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Author: ursaminortaur Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58483 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 21/03/2013 07:46
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Unfortunately lots of people are not taking in the complications and just focussing on the headline figure.

In the Evening Standard last night looking at people's responses to the budget a 73 year old said that she would be slightly better off because of the flat rate pension - not realising that she would be stuck on the old system


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/budget-2013-what-it-...



"
Josephine Roberts, 73, a former teacher and publican who retired at 62 but had to go back to work to make ends meet

Monthly income: £560 state pension, a small private pension and four days a week working for the tour operator at the Olympic Park where she is paid the London Living Wage of £8.55 an hour.

Monthly outgoings: £400 rent, £73 council tax, approximately £90 utility bills, £50 car costs.

What does the Budget mean for you?

“The 3p fuel rise being scrapped is excellent. At the moment I’m trying to use my car a bit less because the cost keeps going up. Now I won’t need to worry about it so much. I also think it’s good for the whole nation by helping stability of price rises for food and transport.The flat rate pension of £144 a week will make me slightly better off, and it’s got to be good news for most people. I think they should cut foreign aid — some foreign economies like India are going to overtake ours.”
"



Dave

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Author: poortoyboy Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58484 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 21/03/2013 16:11
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In the Evening Standard last night looking at people's responses to the budget a 73 year old said that she would be slightly better off because of the flat rate pension - not realising that she would be stuck on the old system

IMHO HMG will have to give, or promise to give, existing Oldies this higher rate or lose the 2015 General Election. Either that or many greybeards will be ordering Kalashnikovs from the States on Ebay. Come to think of it, if US and GB start supplying Syrian rebels with arms, by 2016 they might be able to get MIs on EBay from Syria !

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Author: scotview1 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58486 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 22/03/2013 07:43
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Will someone on long term benefits with say 25 years contributions get a full uplift to 35 years without paying for extra years ?

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Author: poundcoin Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58494 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 23/03/2013 22:51
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I am still puzzled about this new flat rate scheme and how it will affect existing pensioners or those due to reach retirement age before 2016 .

I know that with pension credit , existing pensioners can raise their income to £142 but of course , the amount of pension credit varies according to what other income they receive , as well as savings etc .

As a basic example , say at the moment they got £107 old age pension and had £30 a week from a private pension , then they would be entitled to pension credit of £15 to bring it up to £142 .

Fine so far but a new pensioner after 2016 with the same small private pension will get £144 plus £30 = so £174 a week , £28 a week better off .

I haven't heard any mention though about Council Tax Credit that is payable to those who qualify for pension credit at the moment and won't be available under the new scheme .
I'm assuming that will still carry on for existing pensioners and that could mean with this example , that if your council tax is more than £28 per week (using the above example ) you would be better off with the old system .

Or am I missing something ?

Won't apply to me as unfortunately I made the mistake of paying into a private pension for all those years , when self employed , that together with my state pension will now take me over the pension credit threshold in 2014 when I reach 65 and therefore be unable to take advantage of any extra benefits but will be worse off than those retiring 2 years later who may have paid in 10 years less of contributions .

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Author: meldrewreborn Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 58910 of 60729
Subject: Re: State pension 2015/6 Date: 29/05/2013 20:04
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Miitler100

The rules on the state pension have been changed in recent years to make things better (that doesn't mean perfect) for women. The reduction in years to qualify for a full pension from 39 to 30 (the current regime)was intended to benfit vastly more women than men. the previous rules were much worse.

Women in receipt of child benefit get pension years credited so those contributed towards the 30 years. Is it so unreasonable that a woman outside of child caring years might clock up the additional years to qualify for a full state pension (30 years currently, 35 under the new improved flat rate scheme). After all 30 years is only 2/3rd of a working lifetime.

While the pension rules have not favoured women in the past, the more recent changes have improved matters quite considerably. And a pension of £140-£144 for 35 years of contributions plus credits can hardly be said to discriminate unfairly towards women.

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